Author Topic: Is there a thread or area to discuss TED5000 results?  (Read 17925 times)

DanKegel

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Re: Is there a thread or area to discuss TED5000 results?
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2015, 07:07:12 AM »
Hrmph.  I followed http://www.theenergydetective.com/downloads/QuickStartInstallation%20v110711.pdf
when installing... although I installed at the furnace, rather than in the panel,
so it was somewhat improvised. 

The voltage reported is about half what it should be - on both MTUs.  Hrm.
http://www.theenergydetectiveforums.com/index.php?topic=871.0 says
that'll happen if you have 120v power but haven't told TED about that.
But I just checked, and in the web interface, it's set like this:

Display voltage as?
       120v
MTU connection type?
       120V (BK, WH) MTU 1
       120V (BK, WH) MTU 2

So I'm not sure what's wrong.  Maybe it's my ancient firmware...

DanKegel

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Re: Is there a thread or area to discuss TED5000 results?
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2015, 07:13:59 AM »
Aha!  I'm not the only one!  Somebody else reported strange results like mine
(the power spike, not the voltage).  See
http://www.theenergydetectiveforums.com/index.php/topic,2704.0.html
and
http://www.theenergydetectiveforums.com/index.php/topic,2794.0.html

Evidently you just have to ignore those crazy readings.  Sigh...

Also, the voltage displays properly in Footprints.
Maybe the XML data is uncorrected, and the user has to double it herself?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 07:32:34 AM by DanKegel »

jfpetesn

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Re: Is there a thread or area to discuss TED5000 results?
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2015, 05:11:24 PM »
Quote
I guess a question or two from me - does your utility credit you at a retail level, or some other price, for the energy that you send back to them?  Does the credit roll over to future months?  Does it get cancelled out once per year or so?  With the very large amount of energy you are harvesting, I guess if you reduced your energy use, you could start to think about making some token profit on your energy, but the amounts probably wouldn't be anything to write home about, and I don't know you're utility's policies.  In my case, I can't really go there.  Even once or twice per year when I do zero out, I pay about $10 for my bill due to the basic fees and such.

Yes I get credited hour by hour for my production same as I get charged hour by hour for usage.  Under my utilities standard net metering agreement everything is added/subtracted in kWh.  I am allowed to roll forward any monthly credits for 1 calendar year which starts April 1st.  Any kWh credits zero out March 31 of each year.  The Power Smart Pricing agreement is similar except that instead of kWh credits everything is converted to dollars/cents each hour.  Then any credits/balances are added and subtracted in dollars instead of kWh credit/balances.  I think it is going to be a net 10-15% net positive for my solar production as my solar production will be purchased at a relatively higher dollar rate especially in the late spring, summer, and early fall where there tends to be peaks between 12-5 pm (See attachment).  My utility charges an extra $2.00/mo for this program.  One thing that irkes me is our kWh rate is very reasonable .03-.035 kWh but all the fees for distribution, meter charge, tax, etc add up to more than my electric charge.

Quote
I can see your point about not getting a Chevy Volt yet.  I think many of us learned a long time ago that if you have reliable transportation and it's not broken or requiring a lot of maintenance or monthly payments (if you own it) then there is a point to be made about not messing that situation up.  With that being said, I think there is for some of us a clear synergy as to, in effect, "brewing our own" transportation fuel ... i.e.: filling our cars with solar power that is partially or entirely accounted for by our solar energy harvesting at our homes.  I wonder if the Volt is kind of cramped in the back seat.  When I trade in my leased Leaf, I plan to look at buying a used Volt for $10k or less, and also trade in my other gasoline burner, but a reservation I have a bit is that the Volt may not accommodate
 full-sized adults in the back in real comfort, I don't know for sure.

I thought the volt was a nice car.  I looked at a 2014 it was tight in the back seat but not super small.  It had a console between both the front and back seats.  The primary reason I didn't buy one was I have a paid for car and I really like it.  I felt the Volt was a little cheap looking inside they really forgot the small things (power seats, steering wheel, etc) for the money they are asking.  I also don't really like the hatchback look either.  They are changing though so maybe in a year or two.

Quote
I didn't quite understand RusselH's points about keeping the pipes hot or something.  The water recirculator means that the only place that has to stay heated up is at the hot water tank itself... if the pipes are cold in the house, the recirculator overcomes that by not giving up until it has drawn the hotter water all the way over to the bathroom.  Maybe there is some point that Russel was making that I'm not getting.

I think his point is that most hot water recirculate systems run 24/7 or are on a timer so you will use more energy by flowing hot water 24/7.  The system you apparently have, you just press a button and wait a few seconds to have hot water.  That is the way to do it.  I looked at a system like that but you either had to run wires for the button to each location or they offered a wireless button but it was very expensive.  The 24/7 system is fairly reasonable but it uses more energy.

As for the refrigerator, you are correct that I would probably be better getting a newer more efficient one.  I know it sounds crazy, but I have a little sentimental attachment to this one so I am going to give it another year.



RussellH

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Re: Is there a thread or area to discuss TED5000 results?
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2015, 09:49:39 PM »
But I just checked, and in the web interface, it's set like this:

Display voltage as?
       120v
MTU connection type?
       120V (BK, WH) MTU 1
       120V (BK, WH) MTU 2

So the red wire is just capped off on both, right?

Assuming you've connected it to the right place, you should be seeing 120V.

jlsoaz

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Re: Is there a thread or area to discuss TED5000 results?
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2015, 03:41:25 AM »
[...]
Quote
[from jlsoaz]I didn't quite understand RusselH's points about keeping the pipes hot or something.  The water recirculator means that the only place that has to stay heated up is at the hot water tank itself... if the pipes are cold in the house, the recirculator overcomes that by not giving up until it has drawn the hotter water all the way over to the bathroom.  Maybe there is some point that Russel was making that I'm not getting.

I think his point is that most hot water recirculate systems run 24/7 or are on a timer so you will use more energy by flowing hot water 24/7.  The system you apparently have, you just press a button and wait a few seconds to have hot water.  That is the way to do it.  I looked at a system like that but you either had to run wires for the button to each location or they offered a wireless button but it was very expensive.  The 24/7 system is fairly reasonable but it uses more energy.
[...]

I was not previously aware of the type of system that you and RusselH have referenced.  Even though it sounds like it is a common system, the entire reason for my getting a system of the type that I got was to save water and maybe a little bit of energy (I inquired of my solar installer and they were happy to confirm that such a system existed and they had experience selling and installing them).  Although in theory that bit of water that it saves is not heated (it is just the water you'd run for 10-30 seconds in the shower until it gets hot enough to get in) I think maybe (I'm not sure) there is energy saved because during that initial time of running the shower and waiting for the water coming out to warm up, most or all of the water that is being drawn is coming from the hot water heater.  So, for the sake of an example, if my normal shower is 10 minutes and 30 seconds of water drawn mostly on the hot water heater, and this device shortens it to 10 minutes of water drawn, then that is almost 30 seconds' worth of heated water that is now conserved.  There is a tiny bit of energy lost by running the motor for those 30 seconds and in a vampire load of another plugged in device throughout the day (which can be reduced by putting it on a protector which is turned off when not in use, though this adds to the inconvenience).  I reckon a way to save additional energy might be to add a feature to the device allowing the water to cycle backward into the hot water heater, after the shower is over, and replacing that water in the pipes with cold water.  I'm not sure if that's possible, but it would reduce the amount of heat that is wasted in the pipes waiting for the next shower.

All this may seem like a small amount of energy, but for some of us it's of interest.  For want of better words, in my case, I'd say it's sort of a "serious hobby" and as well of professional interest.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 07:37:42 PM by jlsoaz »

RussellH

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Re: Is there a thread or area to discuss TED5000 results?
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2015, 09:55:09 PM »
So, for the sake of an example, if my normal shower is 10 minutes and 30 seconds of water drawn mostly on the hot water heater, and this device shortens it to 10 minutes of water drawn, then that is almost 30 seconds' worth of heated water that is now conserved.
But you've drawn a total of 10:30 worth of water from the heater.  10 for the shower and :30 via the pump to get heated water into the pipes.  It doesn't matter what causes the water to exit the tank, 10:30 worth of cold water has been drawn into the tank that must now be heated.

Have you conserved water?  Yes.  Energy?  Probably not.  The only way you'd save is if you get lukewarm water returning to the tank so that the heater doesn't have to do as much work to bring it back up to the temperature.

jlsoaz

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Re: Is there a thread or area to discuss TED5000 results?
« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2015, 10:15:07 AM »
So, for the sake of an example, if my normal shower is 10 minutes and 30 seconds of water drawn mostly on the hot water heater, and this device shortens it to 10 minutes of water drawn, then that is almost 30 seconds' worth of heated water that is now conserved.
But you've drawn a total of 10:30 worth of water from the heater.  10 for the shower and :30 via the pump to get heated water into the pipes.  It doesn't matter what causes the water to exit the tank, 10:30 worth of cold water has been drawn into the tank that must now be heated.

Have you conserved water?  Yes.  Energy?  Probably not. 

Agreed.  I live in the high desert so maybe when I installed this gizmo I had water conservation in mind.  I've always said, if I were building a house from scratch around here, the first thing I'd try to do, even before solar, is some sort of water harvesting/conservation.

The only way you'd save is if you get lukewarm water returning to the tank so that the heater doesn't have to do as much work to bring it back up to the temperature.
If it is possible to do this, I would be interested to see how much energy it would save, even if others regarded it as not much.

RussellH

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Re: Is there a thread or area to discuss TED5000 results?
« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2015, 10:07:37 PM »
The only way you'd save is if you get lukewarm water returning to the tank so that the heater doesn't have to do as much work to bring it back up to the temperature.
If it is possible to do this, I would be interested to see how much energy it would save, even if others regarded it as not much.

How is the water returned?  If it's sent back to the tank, then at some point as things warm up, the returning water may be warmer than the cold water coming into the tank.  However, it may not get warm until the water at the faucet is already hot, so the pump has done it's job.  And it's assuming that the water in the pipes is warmer than the cold water.