Author Topic: How to get the dashboard real time data to a switch interface (solar- net)  (Read 9307 times)

DVMDSC

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I need to get real time data out of the dashboard information.  The TED5000 system I use has 3 CT's - 1 for solar, 2 for separate apartments.
I need to prevent current flowing back into the net by sending the overproduction to a battery bank to use it later on.(e.g. at night)
Because my meter also charges me my own production on top of what I use.
What I need to get is a switching point, say at 0 kW.  The solar production then equals the load value in use.  When the solar produces more (e.g. more sun or less load) I need a program and an interface that gives me a switch to activate the charger of the battery bank.
I have no clue what data to expect, how to process these, send these to an interface from e.g a USB port of my computer or over the internet via posting or polling.  I have now also Bidgely as third party.
Can someone help me on the road please with a program or links?  Thank you.

pfletch101

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The third party API to get data from TED is published at http://files.theenergydetective.com/docs/TED5000-API-R330.pdf. You would need to write a program which runs all the time during the solar day, downloads the data at frequent intervals, and compares your usage and production, turning on your charger when there is sufficient 'extra' power to make this worthwhile. The charger would, of course, need to have the appropriate wireless or similar interface to allow this. There is, AFAIK, no third party program available which would help you do this. The fact that you ask this question in the way that you do suggests that this may be well beyond your knowledge and abilities - I apologize if I am misjudging these.

I am more than a bit surprised at your description of how your relationship with your utility works. The only situation in which I can imagine a utility meter charging for production "on top of what I use", would presuppose that the utility meter was a very old one which was not sensitive to current flow direction. Assuming that you told your utility that you have installed solar panels to supply power in parallel to the utility grid (and most, if not all, utilities require that you do this), they should, at the very least, have installed a uni-directional meter, so that you only pay for power that you draw from the grid. Normally, you would have either a bi-directional meter and a net metering agreement with them (you get paid for net power supplied to the grid - you pay for net power supplied to you), or two meters and a feed-in tariff type agreement (you get paid for all the power you produce - you pay for all the power you use). In either of these cases, the considerable added complexity of the system you propose would almost certainly not be cost-effective.
Peter R. Fletcher
TED Pro Home - main MTUs monitoring utility and PV Solar feeds; 2 Spyders monitoring selected individual circuits

RussellH

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Because my meter also charges me my own production on top of what I use.

I've never heard of such a meter.  Even the old mechanical ones will run backwards.

DVMDSC

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Because my meter also charges me my own production on top of what I use.

I've never heard of such a meter.  Even the old mechanical ones will run backwards.

 :-\ :-\ digital with remote reading.  The manufacturer redesigned this meter because putting it upside down made it spin backwards.
The packages are now always counted upwards - the bill always gets bigger.

DVMDSC

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Because my meter also charges me my own production on top of what I use.

I've never heard of such a meter.  Even the old mechanical ones will run backwards.

 :-\ :-\ digital with remote reading.  The manufacturer redesigned this meter because putting it upside down made it spin backwards.
The packages are now always counted upwards - the bill always gets bigger.
The third party API to get data from TED is published at http://files.theenergydetective.com/docs/TED5000-API-R330.pdf. You would need to write a program which runs all the time during the solar day, downloads the data at frequent intervals, and compares your usage and production, turning on your charger when there is sufficient 'extra' power to make this worthwhile. The charger would, of course, need to have the appropriate wireless or similar interface to allow this. There is, AFAIK, no third party program available which would help you do this. The fact that you ask this question in the way that you do suggests that this may be well beyond your knowledge and abilities - I apologize if I am misjudging these.

I am more than a bit surprised at your description of how your relationship with your utility works. The only situation in which I can imagine a utility meter charging for production "on top of what I use", would presuppose that the utility meter was a very old one which was not sensitive to current flow direction. Assuming that you told your utility that you have installed solar panels to supply power in parallel to the utility grid (and most, if not all, utilities require that you do this), they should, at the very least, have installed a uni-directional meter, so that you only pay for power that you draw from the grid. Normally, you would have either a bi-directional meter and a net metering agreement with them (you get paid for net power supplied to the grid - you pay for net power supplied to you), or two meters and a feed-in tariff type agreement (you get paid for all the power you produce - you pay for all the power you use). In either of these cases, the considerable added complexity of the system you propose would almost certainly not be cost-effective.

i always say, what one doesn't know, he can learn.
I will have a look at the provided link.  I know already the protocol between the MTU's and the gateway and how the bit stream is composed and when sent.  From the gateway it goes to the router and from there via WIFI to my computer that communicates with the gateway via the TED software and show it on the interface screen.
Part of this information stream can be posted or polled with a 3rd party.  Only I just didn't find out how the dashboard meter can be detected and processed for my purposes.
Switching a charger with WAN or LAN is no novelty anymore. There are a lot of ready made products on the market.
X10, Seer, and many others. 
I have been in the solar business since 1968, when I designed one of the first charger regulators for a self sustained station in Africa that had PV panels where I had cut the silicon wafers and processed them into solar cells.
Right now I have my house running on a island with 50.000 souls where the power company had a monopoly and could ask whatever price.
Now the kWh price is with fuel cost supplement between 38 and 44 dollar cents.
All the old meters here can run backwards.  The Itron C1S has been bought from Canadian companies just because here they do not want you to grid tie.

This year they told for the first time that they do not want to have people grid tie systems on their grid and that everything has to be certified by them.
Why? If it cannot be tied?
What about people like me that run more than 5000 Watts ( or big multiples of it) already for years and grid tied?

Well that is where the meter fits their purpose.  You talk about a dialog? With a monopolist?
Believe me I know more about solar, about inverters, stand alone, grid tied LF, grid tied HF than the techs of all the power companies in the Americas together.  I have also ties with forums that do engineering consulting.

I might be a bit vague about how I call all the things, but I know what I want.
In short:  Ted is a nice working monitoring aid.
When someone calls it " manages also" there is starts to go wrong.
Because of the lack of exposing controlling power -
and this power I try to unleash.

I need only to find how to get the zero of the dashboard and where the needle is in terms of real time data collecting.
Thank you for your info. Please keep in touch.





DVMDSC

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The third party API to get data from TED is published at http://files.theenergydetective.com/docs/TED5000-API-R330.pdf. You would need to write a program which runs all the time during the solar day, downloads the data at frequent intervals, and compares your usage and production, turning on your charger when there is sufficient 'extra' power to make this worthwhile. The charger would, of course, need to have the appropriate wireless or similar interface to allow this. There is, AFAIK, no third party program available which would help you do this. The fact that you ask this question in the way that you do suggests that this may be well beyond your knowledge and abilities - I apologize if I am misjudging these.

I am more than a bit surprised at your description of how your relationship with your utility works. The only situation in which I can imagine a utility meter charging for production "on top of what I use", would presuppose that the utility meter was a very old one which was not sensitive to current flow direction. Assuming that you told your utility that you have installed solar panels to supply power in parallel to the utility grid (and most, if not all, utilities require that you do this), they should, at the very least, have installed a uni-directional meter, so that you only pay for power that you draw from the grid. Normally, you would have either a bi-directional meter and a net metering agreement with them (you get paid for net power supplied to the grid - you pay for net power supplied to you), or two meters and a feed-in tariff type agreement (you get paid for all the power you produce - you pay for all the power you use). In either of these cases, the considerable added complexity of the system you propose would almost certainly not be cost-effective.


Hi Pfletch101

You have been of great help, posting the .pdf.   I had no idea it was public.
As far as I can find out, I need to get 2 values out of the querry to work with.

I re: page 6
<POWER>
 <Total>

</Total>
 <MTU1>
 <PowerNow>3577</PowerNow>

and from page 7

</MTU1>
<MTU2>
<PowerNow>0<PowerNow>

and compare these on a real time base, equate and use this result to work with?
Since my MTU1 measures the solar production - will it show a - (minus) or just an absolute value?
I will have a look soon, but now it is night here.  Suggestions are very welcome.

Thanks again
D.

DVMDSC

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The third party API to get data from TED is published at http://files.theenergydetective.com/docs/TED5000-API-R330.pdf. You would need to write a program which runs all the time during the solar day, downloads the data at frequent intervals, and compares your usage and production, turning on your charger when there is sufficient 'extra' power to make this worthwhile. The charger would, of course, need to have the appropriate wireless or similar interface to allow this. There is, AFAIK, no third party program available which would help you do this. The fact that you ask this question in the way that you do suggests that this may be well beyond your knowledge and abilities - I apologize if I am misjudging these.

I am more than a bit surprised at your description of how your relationship with your utility works. The only situation in which I can imagine a utility meter charging for production "on top of what I use", would presuppose that the utility meter was a very old one which was not sensitive to current flow direction. Assuming that you told your utility that you have installed solar panels to supply power in parallel to the utility grid (and most, if not all, utilities require that you do this), they should, at the very least, have installed a uni-directional meter, so that you only pay for power that you draw from the grid. Normally, you would have either a bi-directional meter and a net metering agreement with them (you get paid for net power supplied to the grid - you pay for net power supplied to you), or two meters and a feed-in tariff type agreement (you get paid for all the power you produce - you pay for all the power you use). In either of these cases, the considerable added complexity of the system you propose would almost certainly not be cost-effective.

I tried to get the API following the instructions.
It didn't work out different than with

192.168.1.10/api/LiveData.xml
That is the address where the TED5000 is assigned to.

In fact is the name LiveData somewhat misleading, because it only provides the data 1 time after a query.
I need to refresh the page to keep it going.

There is also little structure I can work with to get the only 2 data that I need.
I expected some line numbering.
Is there a program that can work with these data as presented or do I better
work with a different extension querry?

The idea is to grab the info , say every 2 or 3 seconds, compare 2 values and combine a contact through a numerator comparator.
Probably something workable exists already.

Yes this are my first steps into this domain.  I have programmed on a Commodore and Sinclair and Radio Shack, before the PC's became popular.
I am familiar with industrial PLC's and here it stops.
I repair all my computers and stuff myself because the real world is far away from here. (read many dollars away)

At the rate we pay here, Solar pays itself back in 4 years.

pfletch101

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As I originally said, to do what you want to do, you have to have a continuously running program polling one of the locations given in the API at frequent intervals and then working with the downloaded data. The regular API allows you to download a single data set (which may consist of one or many samples) in one of a number of formats; it doesn't set up a 'communications channel' for future updates. You could have the gateway post the data to an internal 'server' running custom code, instead of to Bidgley, but you can't push data to more than one location (limitation of the firmware). I don't have the link to the documentation for that, separate, API to hand, and I have no experience of using it.

Unless you want to spend a lot of time (weeks or months) getting up to speed with programming current computers using a modern high-level language, I don't think that it is realistic for you to hope to write something that works reliably yourself, but an experienced programmer might well be able to produce a custom application for you without breaking the bank. I don't know enough about where you live to suggest how you would start to get in touch with an appropriate person to do this.
Peter R. Fletcher
TED Pro Home - main MTUs monitoring utility and PV Solar feeds; 2 Spyders monitoring selected individual circuits

DVMDSC

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As I originally said, to do what you want to do, you have to have a continuously running program polling one of the locations given in the API at frequent intervals and then working with the downloaded data. The regular API allows you to download a single data set (which may consist of one or many samples) in one of a number of formats; it doesn't set up a 'communications channel' for future updates. You could have the gateway post the data to an internal 'server' running custom code, instead of to Bidgley, but you can't push data to more than one location (limitation of the firmware). I don't have the link to the documentation for that, separate, API to hand, and I have no experience of using it.

Unless you want to spend a lot of time (weeks or months) getting up to speed with programming current computers using a modern high-level language, I don't think that it is realistic for you to hope to write something that works reliably yourself, but an experienced programmer might well be able to produce a custom application for you without breaking the bank. I don't know enough about where you live to suggest how you would start to get in touch with an appropriate person to do this.

I live on a Island with 40.000 souls and have been doing most by myself.  I'd rather have something working with an XML program that runs on a device that polls the TED gateway independently.  As now I only found a small industrial Mitsubishi PLC.  All by all not cheap just to switch ON/OFF.
Probably many of this forum have way more simple solutions.
I know there are plenty Zigbee based net addressed switches, but I don't know if the Zigbee output of the TED provides the info that I need.
Thank you for your most valuable input.