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General Category => TED Pro Support => Topic started by: pfletch101 on March 04, 2014, 01:00:11 AM

Title: First Impressions
Post by: pfletch101 on March 04, 2014, 01:00:11 AM
On the whole, the new TED Pro Home seems like a significant improvement on the TED 5000 series. Those who have been frequenting these boards for a while, will know that I am reasonably positive about the TED 5000 that I have had for a few years, so this is not "damning with faint praise".

I ordered mine last Wednesday and it arrived last Friday (2 days later!).

Installation was a similar process to that for the TED 5000. As usual, carefully following the instructions is strongly recommended! The MTUs and current sensors look (to my eyes, at least) bigger than the old ones in the images on the website, but the MTUs are, in fact, physically almost identical to the old ones, and the current sensors are somewhat less bulky that those which come with the 5000 series. The new current sensors fit with only a mm or so of clearance round my utility feed cables, and were consequently slightly more fiddly to apply and lock closed (a new feature). The ECC (replaces the Gateway in the 5000 series) is designed to sit on a shelf or desktop and look reasonably tidy - it connects to the mains by means of a regular AC cable. I plugged it in the socket that I had been using for my old Gateway, so I would have expected no problems with establishing PLC communications, but it seemed noticeably faster to do so, and Footprints's stats page (now accessible from a menu link from the Footprints menu) confirms a much reduced skip rate (down from 5-10% to < 1%).

Accessing the new version of Footprints was easy - type http://Ted6000 into the browser, and there you are! Footprints found and displayed the output from the main and (subsequently) solar feed MTUs without needing any entry of code numbers - it just needed their functions defined through setup. Once set up, Footprints's options and display screens are similar to those which TED 5000 series users will be used to, with a few relatively minor exceptions:
1) Footprints no longer (apparently) keeps track of or displays maxima and minima for power, cost, and/or voltage on a daily or monthly basis. This is not a great loss (IMHO), though my utility has had a nasty habit of allowing the local utility voltage intermittently to drift up beyond their tolerance levels and to the point where it triggers my solar inverter's over-voltage protection, and it was good quickly to be able to see evidence of this happening.
2) Graphing and setting the upper and lower range limits for the real time display is a bit more complicated than it might be, and the limits are saved in the browser rather than in the ECC, so you have to reset them if you change browsers.
3) The weather display is not working for me - it did (most of the time!) on my Ted 5000 after the last update to the Gateway firmware. I don't use that feature, anyway, so I don't regard its absence as a significant problem.

The new ECC (apparently) works with the old portable display, but you do need to buy a Zigbee card plugin for the ECC. This provided the only really negative aspect of my upgrade experience - both of the sets of pins in the slots in base of the ECC into (one of) which the Zigbee card that I purchased with the rest of the kit should have slid were so badly bent that it could not be inserted. RTI are shipping me a new ECC, with the Zigbee card prefitted, so I will report on the portable display interface when I have the new ECC.

I also have some comments and questions about the Polling API for the new system, but I have posted these over in the Developers' section (http://www.theenergydetectiveforums.com/index.php/topic,2953.0.html).
Title: Additional Early Impressions
Post by: pfletch101 on March 08, 2014, 09:09:17 PM
I now have my new ECC and USnap card, and can confirm that the TED5000 remote display does (sort of - see below) work with the Pro ECC, once you tell it which socket the USnap card is plugged into (surely, when only one card is plugged in, it could figure this out for itself?!), and enter the ID number in setup. The remote display does not, however, seem to get updated nearly as often as it did with the TED5000 - about every 5 minutes at present - which is a mild nuisance. I have my remote display in the same place that it was in before, and my ECC on a shelf a couple of feet above where the old Gateway was plugged in, so this should not be a radio signal strength issue (I also have two signal strength bars on the remote display). Moving the remote display to within a couple of feet of the ECC gives four signal strength bars on it, but does not increase update frequency - indeed, this seems to be getting  progressively worse.

There is at least one other minor thing that needs to be fixed in a firmware update: on Footprints's History page, the first (date/time) column in each of the three (month, day, and hour) blocks is labeled "Month". The label should presumably be (respectively) "Day", and "Time", or something similar, for the second and third blocks.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: lorick on March 09, 2014, 10:38:43 PM
Did you get the Spyder option with your setup?  I really want to see how the Spyder looks in the Footprints software.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: pfletch101 on March 10, 2014, 07:21:41 AM
The Spyder is not shipping yet. I have my name down for one when it is - supposedly within the next few weeks. I will report on it when I have one and have played with it a bit.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: Jeff H on March 16, 2014, 04:02:18 AM
Does the *NEW* TED Pro Home have the ability to connect the MTU to ECC directly by ethernet instead of PLC like the commercial Pro unit does?     I am not interested in using PLC.

Thank you
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: pfletch101 on March 16, 2014, 07:24:33 PM
The MTU to ECC (Gateway successor) connection is still PLC. There are (in RTI's and my opinion) good code-related reasons for this. They claim that they have improved PLC communications in the Pro Home system to make it less sensitive to interference, and my impressions and observations suggest that this is not an empty claim. If you have a very (electrically) noisy environment, you may still have problems, but I think that you would be foolish to reject PLC 'on principle'.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: Jeff H on March 17, 2014, 04:02:57 AM
Thank you for your response.

I just removed the last of my X10 light switches and system and moved to z-wave for lighting control. I just wanted to be all done with X10.

My home office is right above the breaker box in the basement so a direct cable would be an easy short run.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: pfletch101 on March 17, 2014, 07:06:47 PM
The problems that RTI is dealing with (as I understand it, and I am not a Code expert) is that you shouldn't have any low-voltage wiring (such as network cabling) running through or out of a breaker panel enclosure, and that there are strict rules about isolation between mains voltage and low voltage circuitry outside such enclosures. While they could probably develop a code-compliant MTU component that could be installed in a box which was directly connected via a knockout in the panel enclosure and had an appropriately isolated external Ethernet connector, it would add significantly to the cost of the system, and make it much less feasible for anyone except a certified electrician to install it.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: Canada_Guy on March 21, 2014, 12:23:46 PM
How much on-board historical data storage does the PRO have?

I would love it if it had a month (or more) of per-second data stored on-board.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: pfletch101 on March 21, 2014, 06:56:24 PM
As far as I can tell, it has about the same amount of on-board storage as the TED5000, i.e. just over an hour of second data, a bit over 2 days of minute data, some weeks of hour data, and some months of day data (I have never seriously investigated the buffer size for the longer term data, since I download and save it at least daily).
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: Support7 on March 21, 2014, 07:11:34 PM
Hello all and good morning,

You can find our Technical Specs on the Ted Pro systems here:

http://www.theenergydetective.com/downloads/TEDProCommercialSpecifications.pdf

The storage capacity for the Ted Pro is as follows:

Second data = 60 minutes
Minute data = 48 hours
Hour data = 90 days
Day data = 2 years
Year data = 10 years


Thank you for your review, and your interest!

Best Regards,

TED Forum Support
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: TED_User on May 01, 2014, 10:24:24 PM
In regards to pfletch101 reply from March 16, I thought the MTU to ECC communication for the TED Pro Home also had an ethernet option.  So, can't you could plug the MTU(s) and the ECC into a switch and avoid the problems associated with PLC?  And also plug the ECC into a UPS so it always has power?  I'm not sure, haven't made my purchase yet, please help me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: Support7 on May 01, 2014, 10:33:03 PM
Hello TED_User,

The TED Pro Home does not have an ethernet communication option available between the MTU and the ECC. The TED Pro Commercial doe have this option. I think the confusion is that the ECC is the same between systems.

Best Regards,

TED Forum Support
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: TED_User on May 02, 2014, 12:54:27 AM
Pages 9-11 of the TED Pro installation manual show an ethernet port on the MTU, and page 11 shows an ethernet connection option.  I found the manual through Support>TED Pro>Documents & Downloads, where can I find the right manual?
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: Support7 on May 02, 2014, 12:57:43 AM
TED_User

This is the link you are looking for:

http://www.theenergydetective.com/downloads/TEDProHomeInstallation.pdf

Best Regards,

TED Forum Support
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: TED_User on May 02, 2014, 05:22:45 PM
Is it possible to purchase a TED Pro Home with two MTU PROs instead of the PLC model?  I kind of like the idea of using ethernet for communication between devices since it gives me more options.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: Support7 on May 02, 2014, 06:12:18 PM
Hello TED_User,

You would purchase one http://www.theenergydetective.com/pro400 and an additional http://www.theenergydetective.com/mtupro.html

There is not a TED Pro Home package that includes Pro MTUs, so you would simply purchase a Commercial system and an additional MTU.

Best Regards,

TED Forum Support
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: pfletch101 on May 08, 2014, 07:44:33 PM
Did you get the Spyder option with your setup?  I really want to see how the Spyder looks in the Footprints software.

See the image attached. The output from the actual current transducers attached to each Spyder can be grouped, so that (as in this example) the power used by all the components of your HVAC system or all your kitchen circuits can be added together for display, while some components are still broken out separately. You may have up to 8 groups, each of which may include data from one or more current transducers, and the input from any current transducer may be included in any one or more of these groups. In this example, the 'HVAC' number includes the power drawn by the A/C compressor plus the power totals for the Whole House Fan and HVAC Fan and controller which are also displayed separately. Similarly, the 'Kitchen' number includes the power drawn by the Microwave and Garbage disposal on one circuit plus the power drawn by the Dishwasher on a separate circuit, which is also displayed separately.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: lorick on May 12, 2014, 07:05:39 PM
My Footprints software does NOT have the "SPIDER" tab accross the top.  What am I missing?

Rick

Did you get the Spyder option with your setup?  I really want to see how the Spyder looks in the Footprints software.

See the image attached. The output from the actual current transducers attached to each Spyder can be grouped, so that (as in this example) the power used by all the components of your HVAC system or all your kitchen circuits can be added together for display, while some components are still broken out separately. You may have up to 8 groups, each of which may include data from one or more current transducers, and the input from any current transducer may be included in any one or more of these groups. In this example, the 'HVAC' number includes the power drawn by the A/C compressor plus the power totals for the Whole House Fan and HVAC Fan and controller which are also displayed separately. Similarly, the 'Kitchen' number includes the power drawn by the Microwave and Garbage disposal on one circuit plus the power drawn by the Dishwasher on a separate circuit, which is also displayed separately.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: pfletch101 on May 12, 2014, 10:30:14 PM
In order to get my Spyder to function, I had to install updates to my MTU and ECC firmware and to Footprints. I got the updates (very quickly, indeed) by submitting a ticket after I physically installed the Spyder and found that (my existing version of) Footprints could not see it. The Spyder tab appeared after I told Setup in (the new version of) Footprints that I had a Spyder installed, and configured it.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: lundwall_paul on July 03, 2014, 06:30:54 PM
I didn't have any problems with the installation of the TED Pro Home. However there seems to be missing documentation on the ECC. I had to call support to see what to do with the two USB ports on the device. Turns out one is for future expansion and the other is for the wired display. I still have no idea what the front lights represent.
Title: Re: First Impressions
Post by: Support7 on July 03, 2014, 06:52:02 PM
Hello lundwall_paul,

The LEDs in the front can serve several functions.

In Footprints, under settings you will see a Status LED Settings link. Open that link and you will be able to set the front LEDs to illuminate based on the variables you input.

Any input you have about what information you feel is missing from the literature would help us in updating and improving the documentation.

Best Regards,

TED Forum Support