The Energy Detective Forums

General Category => TED5000 Support => Topic started by: Support7 on January 23, 2013, 06:56:13 PM

Title: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: Support7 on January 23, 2013, 06:56:13 PM
Stand Alone Net - Reads bi-directional values, reports Raw MTU value (whether + or -). History displays the cumulative values recorded, and this is NOT applied to the NET reading.

Load - All values are seen as positive regardless of direction. The values are recorded,totaled and added to NET.

Generation - Load multiplied by -1 and added to NET.

Adjusted Load - This is the calculated value of the raw MTU reading and Generation values. The displayed information is the combined value added to the NET.

Example: Your house is using 4Kw, you are generating 5Kw. You have two MTUs, MTU1 is set to Adjusted Load, and MTU2 is set to generation. MTU1 measures a value of -1Kw (raw value), but displays 4kW and the raw value is added to NET. MTU2 measures -5Kw, displays -5kW. Your NET displayed reading would be -1Kw. To get the actual Load of your house in this setup, you would need to add the absolute value of the Generation to the raw Adjusted Load value.

NOTE:As long as a Generation value is being added, An MTU set to Adjusted Load will always display a positive number. Otherwise the MTU will display the same values as Stand Alone Net.

Stand Alone - Identical to Load but the value is not added to the NET.
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: willingp on June 15, 2013, 01:42:36 AM
I have TWO solar installations, but only one MTU.  Where can I find setup instructions so that my single MTU reads NET use or production?
--in other words, it should be positive when I'm using from the grid, and negative when I'm sending to the grid

It looks like my newer installation is set up on a circuit breaker in the main panel and the old one taps into the cables just before the breaker panel.   Do I need to put my transformers in front of (grid side)  that tap into the breaker panel?

Thanks.
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: willingp on June 15, 2013, 02:44:22 AM
MONITORING NET USE/PRODUCTION OF SYSTEM THAT INCLUDES TWO PV SYSTEMS:

"Clarifications" didn't clarify, but by trial-and-error, I now seem to have this correct in setup.  Perhaps these instructions should be included somewhere?  My Setup:

--Are you generating solar?  YES
--Solar configuration?  ADJUSTED LOAD
--Transformers:  red dot FACING PANEL.  When I had them facing away, my solar production was adding to use, not subtracting; now it gives a negative number when I'm sending to grid, and positive when I'm taking from grid.
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: RussellH on June 15, 2013, 09:14:42 PM
--Transformers:  red dot FACING PANEL.  When I had them facing away, my solar production was adding to use, not subtracting; now it gives a negative number when I'm sending to grid, and positive when I'm taking from grid.

Transformers: Trial and error.  Not only does the direction of the dots make a difference, but also which clamp goes on which wire.  However, you should make sure both dots face the same way or else you will get errors.
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: willingp on June 20, 2013, 02:37:04 PM
Yes; thanks!
 I switched transformers to the opposite wire, and it would only give me negative readings for BOTH solar input and for use (e.g., at night).
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: rotomike on August 05, 2013, 04:52:50 AM
I have a question, I have 2 MTU's the first one is monitoring a subpanel at the main leads and the second is monitoring a single breaker in the same panel.   Everything works good.   I have first one set to load and second to stand alone.   is there a configuration that would take the load on the second one and deduct it from the total load shown from the first one.  Basically I want to know what everything is using in the subpanel except that one breaker so trying to figure a way to deduct that breaker from the load. 

Mike
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: Support7 on August 05, 2013, 05:20:54 PM
Thanks for your question Rotomike,

Try setting your MTU1 to Adjusted load and the MTU2 to load, and see if that gives you what you are looking for.


Best Regards,

TED Forum Support

Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: rotomike on August 06, 2013, 03:48:57 AM
That did not work it added 1 and 2 together. 

Mike
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: Support7 on August 06, 2013, 04:51:20 PM
Rotomine,

You could also set the MTU you want deducted and set it to Generation (even though it is not) and it will take the measured value, multiply it by -1 and add it to the other MTU value.

Regards,

TED Forum Support
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: det2500 on August 28, 2014, 08:37:20 AM
I read through the posts and am not totally clear on the correct MTU connections and what to call each one in footprints.

I have a solar panel system with two arrays feeding two breakers into the bottom of my electrical panel. I have one MTU pair on the wires from the meter to the bus bars. The second MTU pair is on the solar wires before the breakers. I have each MTU over both wires from each array. That is to say both black wires go through one MTU clamp and both red wires through the other. I have the red dots on all clamps facing the source of power.  My MTUís are #1 adjusted load, #2 generation.

I am getting a total of usage and generation when I read MTU #1, this is difficult to understand.
 
What I would like is if I click on net I read my current power status positive or negative where and how much KW, if I am adding to the grid or taking away. When I click on MTU 1, I want to see how much I am currently using to power my house. When I click on MTU 2 I want to see how much my solar is producing.

Is there a way to achieve this?
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: det2500 on August 31, 2014, 04:57:47 AM
I didnít get any help here but thatís OK. What really surprised me is I have had a help ticket in for 4 days with only an automated response. TED, you have a great product, are you out of business? If you help the people that own it more people will hear how good it is and buy!

Well anyway the reason I am posting is I found out a few things that may help others.
First I found my meter clamps from the main line coming in MTU 1 were backwards, The red dot was facing the panel, I changed them to red dot facing source and now MTU1 reads positive, in fact all readings make sense.

My next move was to give the gateway its own dedicated line that nothing else would use, except in a rare instance. I had a line going to an outside outlet that I wired back through the wall inside, hooked up the gateway and now my MTU 1 reads backwards, again. I am using just the black wire and had to move it to the other phase to use this new circuit. For a test I moved it back to the other first phase and now readings are positive.

I donít recall reading about this in any help sections. In short, if you are using the black / white only for the MTU moving it from one side of your panel bus bar to the other will change direction of the readings when the MTU is set for adjusted load.
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: pfletch101 on August 31, 2014, 06:54:29 PM
Well anyway the reason I am posting is I found out a few things that may help others.
First I found my meter clamps from the main line coming in MTU 1 were backwards, The red dot was facing the panel, I changed them to red dot facing source and now MTU1 reads positive, in fact all readings make sense.

The instructions could make it clearer that, in practice, pairs of MTUs that are configured in Footprints to read current direction as well as magnitude need to be oriented with the dots on each one facing in the same direction, but whether this direction should be towards or away from the panel for the sign of the reading to be correct needs to be determined by experimentation.

Quote

I donít recall reading about this in any help sections. In short, if you are using the black / white only for the MTU moving it from one side of your panel bus bar to the other will change direction of the readings when the MTU is set for adjusted load.


The MTU/Gateway determines the direction of current flow by comparing the phase of the current (from the MTU) and voltage (from the black wire) readings. Since, on a normal domestic 240V system, the voltage waveform on one bus bar is 180 degrees out of phase with that on the other, switching the power connection to the MTU to the other side of the bus (!) will, indeed, reverse the reported direction of current flow.
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: RussellH on September 02, 2014, 09:36:29 PM
The MTU/Gateway determines the direction of current flow by comparing the phase of the current (from the MTU) and voltage (from the black wire) readings. Since, on a normal domestic 240V system, the voltage waveform on one bus bar is 180 degrees out of phase with that on the other, switching the power connection to the MTU to the other side of the bus (!) will, indeed, reverse the reported direction of current flow.

Likewise switching the CT clamps (dots toward/away) or swapping the CT clamps between the two wires.
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: Insaneoctane on September 22, 2014, 09:53:34 AM
This thread is timely for me....
I just added my MTU2 for my solar array today.  With just 1 MTU, things were working great, but now that I've switched MTU1 from LOAD to ADJUSTED LOAD, it's now showing negative.  Damn.  I read that's because it was probably always negative, but the MTU setting of LOAD always forces values to positive, so I never knew.  Now that I need it to be at ADJUSTED LOAD, I'm realizing that I must have the CT clamps "wrong".

So, RussellH, your previous post tells me I can EITHER swap MTU1 CT clamps to opposite wires OR keep them on the same wires, but switch the direction of the dots, correct?  If so, I'll leave the directions of the dots (pointing at the energy supply source) and just switch the two CTs to opposite wires.  I would much appreciate confirmation on this.  Next, once my PUC gives me my PTO, I'll finally see if I've got my MTU2 CTs in the correct order....but, I have to wait for that....
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: pfletch101 on September 22, 2014, 06:19:44 PM
So, RussellH, your previous post tells me I can EITHER swap MTU1 CT clamps to opposite wires OR keep them on the same wires, but switch the direction of the dots, correct?  If so, I'll leave the directions of the dots (pointing at the energy supply source) and just switch the two CTs to opposite wires.  I would much appreciate confirmation on this.  Next, once my PUC gives me my PTO, I'll finally see if I've got my MTU2 CTs in the correct order....but, I have to wait for that....

Your reading of the posts is correct.
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: mbisco on October 21, 2014, 11:22:21 PM
It seems like a basic tenant of taking measurements is having a way to record the raw numbers. Various displays could and should use the raw information to display in various formats. The details of the various configuration options (copied below; comments added) indicate that ONLY Stand Alone Net records true raw bi-directional information. Load, Standalone, and Adjusted Load record calculated information. Generation is close as always *-1; however, I've found this slightly problematic as my solar panel inverter circuit shows a slight generation overnight when the sun isn't shining. The inverters draw a few watts to keep their monitoring and network cards alive when the sun isn't shining. So even though there is a small load at night, the information is recorded as generation.

It would be very nice to have a bi-directional setting that records the raw MTU value the way "Stand Alone Net" displays and records with the ADDITIONAL functionality of adding the reading (positive or negative) to NET. For this discussion I'll call it "RAW NET".  A properly implemented RAW NET would be usable for all circuits to be displayed on the NET tab, would be good for load and generation circuits, and would preserve raw MTU readings for future analysis.

One of the other problems I've encountered with attempting to analyze recorded data was finding that none of the recorded information preserved MTU configuration setting to understand what calculations were performed prior to recording the MTU data in which the raw mtu data. The downloaded historical information does not preserve the configuration information or changes to configuration. Changes to the configuration result in mixed historical data making it impossible to recreate the true raw readings since there is no positive indication of which configuration/calculations might have been performed on the recorded data.

------ below copied and commented --------

Stand Alone Net - Reads bi-directional values, reports Raw MTU value (whether + or -). History displays the cumulative values recorded, and this is NOT applied to the NET reading. (Comment: Seems like this should be called "Stand Alone No Net")

Load - All values are seen as positive regardless of direction. The values are recorded, totaled and added to NET.

Generation - Load multiplied by -1 and added to NET. (Comment: load to maintain onboard inverter network/monitoring during non-generation periods record as generation i.e. a negative value)

Adjusted Load - This is the calculated value of the raw MTU reading and Generation values. The displayed information is the combined value added to the NET.

Example: Your house is using 4Kw, you are generating 5Kw. You have two MTUs, MTU1 is set to Adjusted Load, and MTU2 is set to generation. MTU1 measures a value of -1Kw (raw value), but displays 4kW and the raw value is added to NET. MTU2 measures -5Kw, displays -5kW. Your NET displayed reading would be -1Kw. To get the actual Load of your house in this setup, you would need to add the absolute value of the Generation to the raw Adjusted Load value.

NOTE:As long as a Generation value is being added, An MTU set to Adjusted Load will always display a positive number. Otherwise the MTU will display the same values as Stand Alone Net. (Comment: Having a generation value results in a positive reading whether there is inflow or outflow making it impossible to differentiate excess generation from load values)

Stand Alone - Identical to Load but the value is not added to the NET.
Title: Re: MTU Configuration Clarifications
Post by: francothis on June 29, 2015, 05:59:57 PM
i i'm from quebec city
some problems all the divice is ok reading but no read value of mtu
i adjust mtu cal 2.00 etc i change the mtu no reading everything is ok setiing number of divice etc but when i install the mtu each of clamp read approx 2.5 amp at 120 volts thank for your support